Beating Hakors with a Stick?! - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

March Hare · Apr 05, 2005, 04:19 AM // 04:19

I don't know if a bot would work all that well in this type of game. It is very difficult for a single player to go though any area by themselves and still get anything of real value (i.e. - gold or experience). In any other area that you can get something of value is extremely difficult solo, and I doubt that it would work like the ones for Diablo 2, where you can do solo missions.
I think the real hacks that ANet have to worry about are those that give a player an advantage either by something like MapHack for D2. All of these things should be more difficult as the game is mostly on the server and only temporary files on a drive. I don't know if it will be a problem, but I'm sure Anet is doing everything possible to prevent hackers... perhaps we'll just have to wait and see

EDIT------------------------------
I guess Sin has about the same view as me

Darkmane · Apr 05, 2005, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sin

As far as I can see you haven't really endeavoured into the game to the point that a group of henchies isn't gonna get you anywhere without a human being controlling your hero--where the treasure to captilize is located. Henchies don't attack until you focus an attack unless they are defending a fellow henchy.

etc.. etc..

Again edited for space, and again .. another great post- Scroll up if you wish to read it all.

Having said all this, one really important consideration...Why? What is so God awful expensive anyone would need to do this? What real benefit are they going to get but maybe more skills to choose from, but then again they haven't the skill points to buy em huh? Nope because they been running a bot in lower levels to loot gold so now they got all this capital and no where to spend it. Darkmane you gotta take a real look at the games structure and I think you'll see the discouragements and down right prohibitions, although unspoken, are already in place, and, those are the ones we know of. The game hasn't released yet and it is my understanding Jeff Strain and company are well experienced and versed in these things. I highly doubt bots would be overlooked.

Maybe having come from many online games that were very easy to bot and become rich beyond belief and wishing in my mind that I had the kind of cash to 'do whatever I deem fit with' -but don't because I have morals and refuse to cheat while 'some other player' purchases anything they desire; Kinda has me tainted to want to do everything possible to help prevent it from happening in this great game I plan to spend my time and money on as I buy the expansions. I know this game is different .. I've played it. But as I said before I dont' see how entering in a 4 or 5 digit code or anything else for that matter to enter a town to help prevent botting is going to deter said gamer from playing. If your in front of your computer anyway.... whats the big deal. Think of it as a key to get into town .. lol

And as a final word thank you for your posts

March Hare · Apr 05, 2005, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmane

Maybe having come from many online games that were very easy to bot and become rich beyond belief and wishing in my mind that I had the kind of cash to 'do whatever I deem fit with' -but don't because I have morals and refuse to cheat while 'some other player' purchases anything they desire; Kinda has me tainted to want to do everything possible to help prevent it from happening in this great game I plan to spend my time and money on as I buy the expansions. I know this game is different .. I've played it. But as I said before I dont' see how entering in a 4 or 5 digit code or anything else for that matter to enter a town to help prevent botting is going to deter said gamer from playing. If your in front of your computer anyway.... whats the big deal. Think of it as a key to get into town .. lol

And as a final word thank you for your posts

As far as beating these peoploe with a stick, baseball bat, golf club etc.; I'm all for it, those people really "cheese" me off(would perfer to use sronger words, but I don't want to get banned

)

lllCo2lll · Apr 05, 2005, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkmane

Maybe having come from many online games that were very easy to bot and become rich beyond belief and wishing in my mind that I had the kind of cash to 'do whatever I deem fit with' -but don't because I have morals and refuse to cheat while 'some other player' purchases anything they desire; Kinda has me tainted to want to do everything possible to help prevent it from happening in this great game I plan to spend my time and money on as I buy the expansions. I know this game is different .. I've played it. But as I said before I dont' see how entering in a 4 or 5 digit code or anything else for that matter to enter a town to help prevent botting is going to deter said gamer from playing. If your in front of your computer anyway.... whats the big deal. Think of it as a key to get into town .. lol

And as a final word thank you for your posts

Well I understand where you are coming from, but it will seriously be difficult to be botting in this game and even if it is done in this. You shouldn't really be that mindful of it. Entering digits just to enter in and out of town all the time. Over time it will become repititive and to me annoying. Its a great idea, but maybe when botting does get serious. At the moment I can't imagine conventional methods of botting to be able to be used in GuildWars. I mean the only way is to bot against really low level mobs. Which is useless loot for those that are level 20.

Sin · Apr 05, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Thank you for creating this thread.

If nothing else the potential cheater knows we as players will not tolerate them and are gunning for em and--WE TAKE NO PRISONERS!

I am pretty much coming directly form runescape, my mining is level 76, so i know of what you speak. They do nothing about it there though, in fact they penalize the legitimate players everytime they try to "fix" the problem--so you see why I am not all that keen on intervention systems.

Also if you haven't put your in-game info in the Unofficial GWG Member "Phone Book" please do. My signature has a link to it.

Thanks again Darkmane

SSE4 · Apr 05, 2005, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sin

I am pretty much coming directly form runescape, my mining is level 76, so i know of what you speak.

I played that game once and only once. I want my ten minutes back. Of course it's all personal opinion, but I don't know how anyone could stand playing that game.

For me, my biggest experience with bots had to be while playing Ragnarok Online. Some of them got horrible, and it was just downright annoying at times. You have to feel bad knowing that someone is sleeping/at work and still making tons of money and experience while you work hard for each and every kill. However, there are better ways to address the problem than bothering every player active in the game world. It's an interesting idea, but simply not a viable solution.

Pharalon · Apr 05, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

One of the golden rules when formulation anti hack/bot methods is that it must inconvience the botter/hacker substantially more than it does legitimate users. Ideally, it shouldn't influence the users at all, but if it does, then it should have a major imact on the effectiveness of bots/hacks.

Punching in a random code is increbily annoying form the users perspective, and is only a minor slowdown for a botter once someone comes up with a function to quickly extract the required code (not insanely difficult if you've got a bit of time and knowledge). The cost/benefit doesn't cut the mustard.

Several Alphas are actively making bots where they see an opportunity or need to do so, and the devs are making changes to break those bots. I've had several bots and macros broken within days of passing the code onto the devs. It's something they take very seriously, and expect that to remain the same after release. I also trust that they'll keep botting down in ways that won't impact too much on legit players.

I'll be really annoyed if I've got to write a macro to enter a code whenever I warp to a new instance

Gaile Gray · Apr 05, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

I think this is an interesting idea, Darkmane. I'm not sure if bots can zone in and out. For some reason, perhaps my rather light acquaintance with bots, I thought they were started up and run in a specific map or mission or whatever. But if they can traverse from zone to zone, then what you've suggested is interesting.

Thanks for the creative thinking. We're always open to ideas, particularly those that will keep the world safe and the economy solid.

Sin · Apr 05, 2005, 08:39 AM // 08:39

I have to add that though there is this sudden admission that bots have been going on during alpha testing, that indicates Arena.net's committment to the GuildWars community. When seen in light of what pharalon has said abover regarding coding that is broken in a few days tells me even moreso that this has been well considered and there are methods in place, both known and unknown, to maintain the integrity of the GuildWars game and in-game economy.

Someone had a thread about what's wrong with the community, about people that don't talk in a team on a mission or do everything you told them not to do...I wonder if some portion of that was some "bot" testing by BWE players and aphas.

Just with all I look at of how the game is as far as items, battles, etc. and the ease of the game as a normal player, even the ease of having enough to buy all you need. I personally see anyone even trying a bot on release of GuildWars as just stupid. It's not like anyone has to buy some armour that is 2 or 3 million gp and all because it is "trimmed" or named after one of the "gods." This all has to be addressed at the programming level too because any gameplay adjustment is a return to the grind system in one way or another.

mbecker · Apr 08, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I think this is a great idea. I'd prefer if it only asked every few instances/zonings, becuase each and everytime could be annoying. Bots would not be able to scan the screen and find out what the code is for the same reason that it doesn't work on sites like Fileplanet, which makes you do this when you register. Computers sucks at decifering patterns, plain and simple. The human brain is WAY better at it. Simple distortion in a random pattern would prevent bots from entering instances.

Again, every single zone jump might get annoying, but I wouldn't mind typing 'x7ntf' once an hour.

EDIT: As long as the solution is kept on the servers and just the image sen to your client everything should be okay.

Doctor · Apr 10, 2005, 07:18 AM // 07:18

I dislike this idea, it would be annoying, make the game less immersive and it would be unlikely that any type of "hacking" or bots would be stopped by this measure. Besides, in a game where there is no real grinding or farming, what would the point of a bot be anyway?

Azrael · Apr 10, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I voted other.

I think it would be a good idea if bots became a problem. I hate those bots that stand in the streets and tell you to go to such and such website, they drive me insane. I don't want the game devs to waste time on something that might not even happen through.

All I want is a game where people aren't A**es, there is no hacking or cheating and is fun. Is that to much to ask?

View Poll Results: Random Number Generator entering/exiting towns?
I think that is a great Idea! Suggest it to the powers that be!	19	39.58%
I think that I have a better Idea.	2	4.17%
I think that idea is horrible and any other idea like it.	24	50.00%
Other Please Specify~~	3	6.25%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

Apr 05, 2005, 04:19 AM // 04:19	#21
March Hare Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wonderland Guild: Knights of Ascalon Profession: W/Me	I don't know if a bot would work all that well in this type of game. It is very difficult for a single player to go though any area by themselves and still get anything of real value (i.e. - gold or experience). In any other area that you can get something of value is extremely difficult solo, and I doubt that it would work like the ones for Diablo 2, where you can do solo missions. I think the real hacks that ANet have to worry about are those that give a player an advantage either by something like MapHack for D2. All of these things should be more difficult as the game is mostly on the server and only temporary files on a drive. I don't know if it will be a problem, but I'm sure Anet is doing everything possible to prevent hackers... perhaps we'll just have to wait and see EDIT------------------------------ I guess Sin has about the same view as me Last edited by March Hare; Apr 05, 2005 at 04:21 AM // 04:21.. Reason: Similar point of view

Apr 05, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31	#25
Sin Banned Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Joint :p	Dude!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for creating this thread. If nothing else the potential cheater knows we as players will not tolerate them and are gunning for em and--WE TAKE NO PRISONERS! I am pretty much coming directly form runescape, my mining is level 76, so i know of what you speak. They do nothing about it there though, in fact they penalize the legitimate players everytime they try to "fix" the problem--so you see why I am not all that keen on intervention systems. Also if you haven't put your in-game info in the Unofficial GWG Member "Phone Book" please do. My signature has a link to it. Thanks again Darkmane

Apr 05, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14	#28
Gaile Gray ArenaNet Join Date: Feb 2005	I think this is an interesting idea, Darkmane. I'm not sure if bots can zone in and out. For some reason, perhaps my rather light acquaintance with bots, I thought they were started up and run in a specific map or mission or whatever. But if they can traverse from zone to zone, then what you've suggested is interesting. Thanks for the creative thinking. We're always open to ideas, particularly those that will keep the world safe and the economy solid. __________________ Gaile Gray Support Liaison ArenaNet

Apr 05, 2005, 08:39 AM // 08:39	#29
Sin Banned Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Joint :p	I have to add that though there is this sudden admission that bots have been going on during alpha testing, that indicates Arena.net's committment to the GuildWars community. When seen in light of what pharalon has said abover regarding coding that is broken in a few days tells me even moreso that this has been well considered and there are methods in place, both known and unknown, to maintain the integrity of the GuildWars game and in-game economy. Someone had a thread about what's wrong with the community, about people that don't talk in a team on a mission or do everything you told them not to do...I wonder if some portion of that was some "bot" testing by BWE players and aphas. Just with all I look at of how the game is as far as items, battles, etc. and the ease of the game as a normal player, even the ease of having enough to buy all you need. I personally see anyone even trying a bot on release of GuildWars as just stupid. It's not like anyone has to buy some armour that is 2 or 3 million gp and all because it is "trimmed" or named after one of the "gods." This all has to be addressed at the programming level too because any gameplay adjustment is a return to the grind system in one way or another. Last edited by Sin; Apr 05, 2005 at 09:07 AM // 09:07..

Apr 05, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13	#27
Pharalon Beta Tester Join Date: Jan 2005 Guild: Carebear Club	One of the golden rules when formulation anti hack/bot methods is that it must inconvience the botter/hacker substantially more than it does legitimate users. Ideally, it shouldn't influence the users at all, but if it does, then it should have a major imact on the effectiveness of bots/hacks. Punching in a random code is increbily annoying form the users perspective, and is only a minor slowdown for a botter once someone comes up with a function to quickly extract the required code (not insanely difficult if you've got a bit of time and knowledge). The cost/benefit doesn't cut the mustard. Several Alphas are actively making bots where they see an opportunity or need to do so, and the devs are making changes to break those bots. I've had several bots and macros broken within days of passing the code onto the devs. It's something they take very seriously, and expect that to remain the same after release. I also trust that they'll keep botting down in ways that won't impact too much on legit players. I'll be really annoyed if I've got to write a macro to enter a code whenever I warp to a new instance

Apr 08, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12	#30
mbecker Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2005	I think this is a great idea. I'd prefer if it only asked every few instances/zonings, becuase each and everytime could be annoying. Bots would not be able to scan the screen and find out what the code is for the same reason that it doesn't work on sites like Fileplanet, which makes you do this when you register. Computers sucks at decifering patterns, plain and simple. The human brain is WAY better at it. Simple distortion in a random pattern would prevent bots from entering instances. Again, every single zone jump might get annoying, but I wouldn't mind typing 'x7ntf' once an hour. EDIT: As long as the solution is kept on the servers and just the image sen to your client everything should be okay.

Apr 10, 2005, 07:18 AM // 07:18	#31
Doctor Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2005	I dislike this idea, it would be annoying, make the game less immersive and it would be unlikely that any type of "hacking" or bots would be stopped by this measure. Besides, in a game where there is no real grinding or farming, what would the point of a bot be anyway?

Apr 10, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23	#32
Azrael Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida	I voted other. I think it would be a good idea if bots became a problem. I hate those bots that stand in the streets and tell you to go to such and such website, they drive me insane. I don't want the game devs to waste time on something that might not even happen through. All I want is a game where people aren't A**es, there is no hacking or cheating and is fun. Is that to much to ask?